Online gaming discount store or counterfeiters making hay?

[mangozac]

Couldn't keep away from the thread eh Jon?

Seriously though, that was a very well written response, and clarifies how the legal situation works. Thanks for taking the time to write it out!

[blind pig]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUUYvTnB6es

I'll put it here, as I couldn't be bothered to make another thread. About half way through is interesting for the casters.

[mangozac]

Wow I didn't see that link before Bec. Makes you realise just how massive a company it is!

By the way, Miniaturehobby no longer have any FW products listed. Those who got stuff be glad you got in when you did!

[blind pig]

[mangozac]

I think it goes without saying that they received a C&D. Although as was previously discussed, the threat from a C&D in China is supposedly quite empty, so I do wonder if there isn't any other reasons for it all disappearing? I'll certainly be keeping my eye on the site to see what eventuates though...

[blind pig]

I'm thinking Chineese New Year, I have just had another look and there is even a request by them to hold off buying stuff until New Years is over......

[mangozac]

And they're back..... although still not with as large a range and I notice that the prices have jumped up a little

[blind pig]

Yeah, Chineese New Year!

Their quality of casting is bloody beautiful, but they cut off any sprue/pouring wells that may contain GW/FW refrences and there are no instructions in their kits.

All up, they are great, but they do seem to be rippinf off the small guys which is a shit thing to do.....

[Anvils Hammer]

ripping off the large guys is a shit thing to do.

indirectly, Its theft from the sculptors, and from the people who pay for the real thing.

AH

[blind pig]

GW ripping off non EU people is a shit thing to do.

I don't care about them ripping off GW and will continue to buy off them (the Chineese) as long as I can.

We will have to agree to disagree on that one thing, I guess.

[1lc]

[Anvils Hammer]

Happily,

In any industry, supply and demand, and the cost of producing somthing, dictates the price at which a product is sold.

A company will price its products to make as much money as it can, to cover its costs and make a profit, the free market mechanism is such that if a company charges to much, competitors will take their bussiness away, ensuring the price of any product tends toward the "market" level.

If a company sufferes stock loses from shop lifting, they have to absorb those losses by passing the costs on to their other customers, so in a supermarket a small % of the price I pay is to cover the cost of stuff which has been stolen.

In the video game industry, a large number of people choose to download and play pirate copies. The cost of developing the game is still the same as if there was no piracy, but revenues are lower, so the cost of each legitimate copy of the game must be higher.

In the wargames miniatures industry, people who purchase a knock off copy of a miniature rather than pay the price set by the legitimate manufacturer, are reducing that companies revenue. For any one person purchasing a knock off, the effect is virtually zero, but over the whole industry, the lost revenue from piracy/recasting is passed on to the consumer, the legitimate purchaser of the originals.

So my forgeworld Contemptor Dreadnaught is more expensive that it would be if there was no piracy.

If there was no piracy, a certain % of the people buying a knock off would choose to pay the Forgeworld price, that would increase their revenues and profits. The increased profit would allow them to hire more staff to create awesome new models. Over time, the market mechanism will tend to depress their prices to the normal level.

Its all pretty abstract, but Piracy DOES increase the cost of ANY product to the legitimate end users.

You can argue "why should I care that legitimate purchasers are losing out". I believe its morally wrong to benefit at someone elses expense, even if only in the abstract.

AH

[Fleafa]

There is also the argument that a lower-priced product leads to increased sales and a decrease in piracy, with those who were priced out being able to make a purchase. Can never eradicate piracy anyway.
Arguably, if the price of something is so high that someone will not ever purchase it, instead purchasing a counterfeit at a far lower price does not take away that particular sale from the genuine manufacturer.

[mangozac]

Heh I'm not surprised that this discussion has now branched out into piracy concepts in general.

I agree with Fleafa in that the idea that every pirated copy of something is a lost sale is very flawed - it's a concept that the record and film industries have been pushing for a long time but nobody really buys into. I too would argue that the majority of people who acquire pirated goods would not have bought a legitimate copy anyway, so it really can't be viewed as lost income.

[Arkangel]

I have to say i must agree with Zac also. Not only that but i disagree with your concept that by reducing piracy and therefore, more revenue will be taken in by the originator, that it will reduce future costs and increase product quality.

A proof of this is Citadel 'Fail-cast'. The majority of the casts are no better than some of the older Forgeworld products yet are horrendously overpriced for the quality and quantity. And they are mass produced for the target audience. This is in GWs eyes your 13/14 - 19 year old. Who have a low general income, or low disposable income yet the prices are considerably higher than other miniature companies out there that to be honest provide better products. I know you've mentioned before staff cost, over-heads, property rental etc etc but come on...this is GW we're talking about not some random independent.
Forgeworld prices have been increasing recently again, as they have over the years as well, and that isnt all to do with piracy or knock offs, its a subsidiary of GW and GW have, bottom line, Shareholders who ultimately they are responsible to.
Scibor's products are easily on par with anything Forgeworld produces if not better in some respects yet the prices are reasonably set.

But even after ALL of this is said it comes down to a few things.
How much an individual is willing to pay for a product, and how much this decision is swayed by their moral compass?

You want a bargain you'll go find it. Right or Wrong?

Im NOT condoning in anyway piracy of someone's intellectual property but I do find it a hard pill to swallow when GW hike up their prices consistently to hold up their failing line of Lord of The Rings miniatures/game and allege that the initial pricing of 'Fail-cast' was to offset the re-packaging of products and the initial outlay for the product development. Which funnily enough a Forgeworld employee told me was developed through and using Forgeworld and its miniature range..Hmmmm?