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Forgeworld Tartaros Pattern Terminators

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Forgeworld Tartaros Pattern Terminators

Postby Arkangel » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:00 pm

Ok so last weekend I attended the Forgeworld open day at GW HQ in Notts UK. I got there @ stupid o'clock in the morning to find 25 people had decided they had nothing better to do on their sunday morning either and also got up a lot earlier than me :!:
Anyway I thought I was a lucky guy as being one of the first twenty-odd people I was fortunate, or so I though, to get my hands on both the event only miniatures two of the first 20 kits of the new Storm Eagle(thanks to my girlfriend) and a shiny new set of the Tartaros pattern Terminators.
Boy was I wrong :x I got the mini's back to my girlfriends and started to check them out. It was at this point I nearly hit the roof :?

Now I know some of you out there are not huge fans of FW, well I'll admit, generally I am. I like a lot of the stuff they produce and most recently the new Minataur Characters are awesome. At this point I'd like to point out that the event only Enforcer with Cyber Mastiff is a great mini. While the Mastiff is neither here nor there the Enforcer is fantastic. It's clean it's highly detailed and just a real good buy in my eyes, Look out MJ :mrgreen:
The Skin Wolf however has been produced using the same style as 'Failcast' ie it has a Sprue like casting even though it's in resin. It's this that set alarm bells ringing when I open up the new terminators.

Yes you've guessed it, they too are produced in exactly the same manner. Now initially I reserved my judgement as I thought, 'Hey this is FW not GW all will be ok.' All was NOT ok :(

There is mould slip, missing material/mis-casts, air-bubbles, awful mould lines across the bridge of the nose on the helmets, and most astonishing of all, one of the sets of legs that is in a 'dynamic' pose is mis-proportioned. What I mean is the left foot is actually smaller than the right. Also the fine detail on the chest pieces on the torsos just aren't and what I mean by that, is they are barely much better than some of the older plastic terminators in detail level.
In fact the new Wolf Guard plastics are better, yes I'm a SW player but still? And I know the Space Hulk ones were a one off in design etc etc but they kick these new resins into touch by a LONG way.
I thought long and hard and decided I'd give them a call the next day to complain at my disappoinment of the quality.

What I got was not a real apology, very little sympathy and and defensive stance from the customer service rep that bordered on rude. I explained my disapointment to the guy and he was more interested in me sending them back so their casting team could take a look at them than he was about me as a customer, well thats how I felt. When I asked about the Quality checks put in place for the limited release that's when he got defensive.
My point was simple really as it was a 'Limited Release' of a brand new product why weren't the kits checked? We're talking about 20-30 kits AT THE MOST. Surely if your name and reputation is on a limited release you'd make sure they were all top-notch before pushing them out of the door? The guy at FW said that they'd 'probably' been rushed out for the Open Day and that not all minis that FW produce can be checked, weak argument in my book I'm afraid. :x

Anyway I've sent an email, written a letter to accompany the mini's, and they are being sent back today.

My honest opinion DONT buy these unless you REALLY want a different look to your army with pre-heresy-ish looking Terminators. I have some pictures, I'll admit they aren't the best and I'll try posting them up later, but most of the patients with a serious habbit on here will know I rarely show disaproval for a FW kit let alone warn people off.

I just really hope this isn't the future of FW products, otherwise I'll be turning my attentions to Scibor more and what I can pick up elswhere. :cry:
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Re: Forgeworld Tartaros Pattern Terminators

Postby Deadmeat30 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:22 pm

sadly, FW are now spin casting there resin.... its a sad day for us all.... lol
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Re: Forgeworld Tartaros Pattern Terminators

Postby Arkangel » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:41 pm

Deadmeat30 wrote:sadly, FW are now spin casting there resin.... its a sad day for us all.... lol


I'm now aware they did this for the Death Korps of Krieg minis, but until I saw the Skin Wolf and Tartaros Terminators I wasn't aware this was a practice used by FW. The customer service guy I spoke to did indeed say that GW had taken this technique on for their 'Failcast' minis and it was prototyped and used by FW first. I'm genuinely worried if this is the future of FW's minis, as so far I've never really had a complaint about anything quality or sculpt wise.
And I own everything from a Reaver Titan and Macharius battle tanks to the Original resin Baneblade from 1999-2000 and various SM infantry kits and special characters in between, so I should know :x
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Re: Forgeworld Tartaros Pattern Terminators

Postby Munkey Joe » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:31 am

This makes me sad...... :(

Im glad the Enforcer I got from you was well cast, the skinwalkers were Meh IMHO so I was not worried about them, but I really wanted some of those Termies..... Like in the worst way.

I will still get one set more than likely but I will wait till all the "bugs and rush" is over for them.... Thanks for the heads up! :mrgreen:
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Re: Forgeworld Tartaros Pattern Terminators

Postby mangozac » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:25 am

This is disappointing news. The enforcer look like a lovely mini so I'm glad the quality is good there, But I agree to have "limited pre-release" figures badly cast is simply unacceptable. Puzzling that you say the sculpts themselves are actually really poor though!

Oh and to be fair, although we carry a bit of GW hate on here (and general complaints about FW casting quality), I think it's safe to say that most of us love the FW models ;)
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Re: Forgeworld Tartaros Pattern Terminators

Postby Arkangel » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:05 am

Just a quick update guys. I spoke to Forgeworld this afternoon, having sent them an email regarding my returned miniatures on Monday. An auto reply said if I hadnt recieved anything in 3 working to days, to ring. So I did. I was told that they will respond to the email when they get the chance as they have so many to deal with, and that they would contact me when they recieved the minis in the post. Which using their freepost address could be up to week from dispatch. So basically I'll be looking at a response probably no earlier than Tues next week :x
Proper fuming now!
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Re: Forgeworld Tartaros Pattern Terminators

Postby Fleafa » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:34 am

Classic customer service right there! Ugh.
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Re: Forgeworld Tartaros Pattern Terminators

Postby mangozac » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:23 am

My understanding was that emailing FW was always a useless endeavour anyway - I phoned them to arrange replacement parts for my Ramilies Star Fort.

I feel your pain though :(
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Re: Forgeworld Tartaros Pattern Terminators

Postby Arkangel » Wed May 23, 2012 5:25 am

Ok guys been a while so here's an update. I am still yet to receive my miniatures and here is why.
I spoke with Ead Brown head of sales and customer services yesterday. It would appear that for the last 3-4 weeks sice i complained and they finally replied to my letter I am not the only one with issue about the miniatures.
It would appear I opened a can of worms as since then pretty much every batchnof the new terminators has failed quality checks in other words, every batch as mine was part of the first!

They have decided to take a serious look into the quality of the resin, the moulds and the casting process for the terminators as they're seriuosly unhappy.

So chalk another one up to the failcast process! :(
I'm going to have to wait another 3-4 weeks now for a fresh batch of mini they hope will address all the issues.
However they are sending my 'sorry' Minotaur Characters minis via courier tomorrow :mrgreen:
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Re: Forgeworld Tartaros Pattern Terminators

Postby Lane » Wed May 23, 2012 6:39 am

The two sets purchased by people at my local store both met usual FW standards.

It sounds like the process is not bad, just not consistently good enough.
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Re: Forgeworld Tartaros Pattern Terminators

Postby Arkangel » Wed May 23, 2012 6:21 pm

Lane wrote:The two sets purchased by people at my local store both met usual FW standards.

It sounds like the process is not bad, just not consistently good enough.


Sorry I should have probably been a little clearer. It had been a long day and I was tired ;)

Basically every batch so far has had suffcient quality issues for Forgeworld to intervene and take stock of the situation. While some sets are passing through, most are not. I can't say how many are in a batch and I don't have figures for failure rates per batch or a percentage.
I can however say that from the two conversations I had, the information I was given was that:

1. I am not the only person to return/complain about the quality of the Tartaros Termies by a long-shot.
2. Since I returned my miniatures early/mid April Forgeworld have been unable to supply me with a set that are good enough to push out the door. And as mine were part of the initail release on the Open Day IE the 'First Batch' that would indicate every batch since too. IE every batch produced has so far had significant failures in quality.

Whilst I am not the only one to complain, I have been assured by the head sales guy Ead Brown, that because I bought mine at the Open Day from initial release, I do have priority for replacement minis. And Several batches later and a month down the line, Ive been told it could be another 3-4 weeks before they will recieve a new batch post modifications to the 'Process', becuase the rest they've recieved just aren't good enough.

I was told by Forgeworld staff that several of the batches have come through with significant issues which have led them to investigate the entire process for this miniature line, Resin Mix, Mould and the process itself.
Again I cant comment on where they are being produced either in the UK or in China, I can only assume, that as they are being 'Sent' to Forgworld, they're being produced outside of the UK base of Ops @ Lenton over the road from GW HQ.
As the 'Process' is the same as most of the GW 'Failcast' line it would appear that although it works for the FW DKOK mini's, something went sideways with this miniature line.

As I get more news I'll keep people updated. If anyone out there has had a 'good' set through I'd be interested to know whether there were any quality issues at all?

Hasta :mrgreen:
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Re: Forgeworld Tartaros Pattern Terminators

Postby Deadmeat30 » Wed May 23, 2012 6:25 pm

They are all cast at lenton lane.
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Re: Forgeworld Tartaros Pattern Terminators

Postby Arkangel » Wed May 23, 2012 6:31 pm

Hmmmmm.......that's interesting? :?
I was led to believe that a large portion of the 'big kits' and stuff like the DKOK due to volume had been pushed over seas as it was cheaper?
If that's true how come they have to wait for them in the post?
Unless the packaging and Sales it done over the road @ GW HQ?
I was under the impression that FW was it's own entity over the road?

Thanks for the heads up Alan I'll keep it on file :mrgreen:
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Re: Forgeworld Tartaros Pattern Terminators

Postby mangozac » Wed May 23, 2012 7:16 pm

Last I heard it had all been pulled back in house after having issues with Asian outsourcing.

It sucks to hear about all of these issues with them though :(
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Re: Forgeworld Tartaros Pattern Terminators

Postby Deadmeat30 » Wed May 23, 2012 9:20 pm

It was outsourced like Zac said, but the quality was a massive issue, so came back in house when FW moved from there lone building, back into HQ casting area.

They keep up with demand with a resin gun, they line up moulds, then have a mixer ( like a cola dispenser at a pub) that mixes perfect A+B+pigment. They just fill the moulds up on a tray, onto a big vacuum chamber, and away it goes. Far more advanced than our primitive ways ;)

All GW products (besides books and WD) are made at lenton lane. Ah and printed boxes, there aboard too i think.
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