Online gaming discount store or counterfeiters making hay?

[mangozac]

Dan sums it up perfectly. Although despite the often poor quality of the few FW models I own, I can't bring myself to believe that they worked with GW to develop the failcast. Or if they did, GW promptly forgot everything they were taught...

[blind pig]

I'm putting together another Miniatures Hobby "FW" mini right now.

This Chineese knock-off is below FW's usually pretty good standard (of late- Yes Zac, some of us do get good castings from FW, don't roll your eyes! ). There are a few ~3mm airholes and a quite a lot of pin-prick airholes over the mini, as well as a couple of really bad mould slip on some detailed areas that have been a bit of a pain to clean up.

The resin is the same pale green as the last one I bought, but there are some blobs and threads of not-quite mixed properly black pigment through some of the larger resin pieces (these, of course, shall disappear with painting). This once again makes me think the original colour is a buff or light tan colour. The resin has a strong acrylic resin smell when sawn or cut, making me think that there may be some acrylic resin powder used as a filler in the PU resin. It also burns faster than FW PU.

I'd like to know the reasons for the obvious decline in the models that they are producing, The order number on the reciept from them is a few thousand more that what it was before Christmas, so perhaps they have been pushing the moulds a bit longer than they should or cutting corners in the pressure department, when the resin is curing in the moulds.

[mangozac]

That's a real shame to hear. Indeed I would expect it's to do with the massive jump in demand that occurred when they became page 1 news in the wargaming world. I wonder if the non-FW kits are as bad? It does sound like the defects are simply due to rushing the casting process.

What's their QA policy?

Yes, I do hear that FW generally get their quality pretty decent, but I would hope that the threat from MiniaturesHobby has forced them to clean up their act a bit!

[Anvils Hammer]

Thousands of orders since christmas..

hope no one expects me to believe that EVERY buyer is someone who could never have afforded FW prices. FW are being done out of sales by these bastards, makes me furious.

The last two kits I got from FW were beautiful, a few minor issues but overall top notch, they should not have to compete for business with criminals.

AH

[blind pig]

I know how to cast too, as do Thousands of other gamers.......

Criminals, you say?

[Anvils Hammer]

If they use their casting equipment/knowledge to make a profit from other peoples hard work, yes.

If they cast for personal use then its not illegal most places, so not criminal, but depending on the specifics, certainly immoral in my opinion.

I know how Id feel if someone purchased one of my components and then made 50 copies because they didn't want to buy 50 from me.. and I see no reason larger companies should be treated any different..

on a less serious note, anyone on this forum purchasing one copy of every part in my catalog in the near future will receive a polite refund

AH

[mangozac]

[Arkangel]

I second Zac's comments. As I said before Piracy and theft of interlectually property is wrong. But dont we all go for a bargain?
I no-longer buy my plastic kits from GW. I go through an independant stockist because of cost. Would I buy a re-cast, fake-cast, at a fraction of the price for a conversion, or for that one off part you dont want to buy the whole mini for, at £1,000,000?

HELL YEAH

In fact. If I knew i could cast it myself, which to be fair as long as it's not too complicated i can, I would. Would I then sell them on. NO, would I give a few away to mate for the same reason, well yeah.

I'm not saying go buy a load of forgeworld stuff and then set up your own business re-casting them and selling them on.
I'm saying 're-casting' some things are not a crime as long as your not tryign to make a business out of it.

[Fleafa]

Of course, being a Chinese business, they aren't technically criminals as China never signed up to international copyright/patent/IP agreements. Great way to boost the economy, huh?

[blind pig]

China have signed up with to international copyright/patent/IP agreements, but do not enforce it (with a few exceptions from companies that pay for it to happen).

A mate living in Shanghai in china sent me this link a few minutes ago. Google translate has fun with it

[Fleafa]

[mangozac]

Hey guys I've just gone through and cleaned out this thread a bit. I wasn't comfortable with the direction that the discussion had gone and while it may have been all OK under the banner of "free speech", I'd rather not have things that can give reason for certain companies to harass us.

Please keep this discussion purely relating to the practical and moral questions raised by the Chinese counterfeiting operations. Any more discussion of actually acquiring said models I'm going to have to censor

[blind pig]

Perhaps move it to a Members only Forum?

[mangozac]

I considered that, but ultimately decided against it for two reasons:
1. If somebody was keeping tabs on the forum they would probably be logged in anyway.
2. Ultimately I don't like the the attitude that it openly discussing the acquisition of counterfeit goods begins to promote. It's not in the spirit of RA and starts to make us look a bit hypocritical.

I don't mind you explaining how you bought from seller X and that you found the quality good, but I feel that the line is drawn once the discussion transitions to the details of how and where the item was bought from seller X. Talk about that stuff via PM.

[Fleafa]

I think that you are right Zac. The second RA is seen as endorsing such things, we all lose.